Existential Boozer: A Proustian pint with Dry Cleaning
In the days of old, a pub would have been a dangerous place to meet a band, especially one considered something of a local to its bandmates. But we aren’t in the days of old, and Dry Cleaning aren’t the sort of band who would have adhered to the nonsense of sex, drugs and rock and roll, which made them perfect for a heartfelt edition of Far Out’s Existential Boozer.
As the band arrived at The Ivy House in Peckham, they weren’t bundling into the pub at the stroke of midday, ready to cause carnage and drink the bar dry, but instead trickled quietly in, one by one and adopted a beloved corner of the pub as they did so. Introductions were met with a warm handshake and firm eye contact, for this was a band who were no strangers to getting deep over the cool tranquillity of a pint.
Overrated virtues, perfect happiness and proposed ways of dying were no problem for Dry Cleaning, a band that had seen it all individually and collectively over the years. So without hesitation, we poured three cold Guinnesses and got to work on Marcel Proust’s questionnaire. Unsurprisingly, the answers were as good as their music.
Guitarist Tom Dowse and vocalist Florence Shaw not only looked out onto the world through the questions, but back into the band themselves, deliberating exactly what art meant. A potent question in the modern world, and one that Proust never knew about, but doesn’t that just show how timeless this questionnaire really is?
What is your idea of perfect happiness?
TD: “It’s tricky, isn’t it, because I don’t really believe in perfect happiness, but if it was anything, it would be watching dogs just going about their business, really. Just pure enjoyment because they, they don’t know they’re cool and only you get to be happy about that. They are happy, but they’re not really aware they’re happy. They’re like, ‘What’s that smell?!’”
What living person do you most admire?
TD: “I’m gonna say Florence. We met at art college, and kind of the reason why we asked her to join the band was because one of the things I saw immediately at art college is she’s really into, like, kind of art for its own sake.
“You do see a lot of people that work in the arts or in the music industry that are actually interested in the status of those things without actually being interested about the thing they’re supposed to be doing. And Flo is the opposite of that. She’s anti-status or just not even really aware of it really. She’s just getting on with making really cool stuff.”
FS: “I did not expect him to say that”.
What is your current state of mind?
TD: “Festive.”
What do you consider the most overrated virtue?
TD: “So I actually thought about this. I thought morality is overrated just because morality seems to be one of those things where people that are the most moral of people seem to impose them on everybody else. And I’m not talking about immorality. I’m not saying that immorality is beneficial, but I think amorality is probably beneficial where, like, I think you can have a sense of right and wrong, but then you also start to think like you don’t know yourself unless you put yourself in loads of very extreme situations.
“People in war zones do things that you would in any other circumstance say, ‘I would never do something like that’. But of course, it’s easy for you to say you would never do that because you’re not in a war zone. So I think morality is like a very subjective thing, but it’s treated like it’s an objective thing.”
So, like a postured morality is kind of the overrated version?
TD: “For sure, and it’s always the people who shout the most about morality, that deep down, are the most immoral”.
On what occasion do you lie?
TD: “You meet someone, and you really get on with them, and they’re maybe from another band or something, you don’t actually like their music, but you really like them. I think it’s actually fine to just be like, ‘Oh, I really enjoyed that’, or ‘Oh, I really loved that’ just because I really like you as a person, so I don’t want to offend you’, you know?”
Well, you must not expect everyone to like your music?
FS: “I was on a thing on the radio once, and Nitin Sawhney was there, and he said that he didn’t think it was appropriate to critique anyone’s self-expression. And that kind of really struck me as quite a profound thing, because I think I sort of agree.
“But I know exactly what you mean, because throughout the arts, you can know someone who’s the most purest soul and the best person you’ve ever met. But you don’t click with what they make. It’s just…you don’t quite get it, or it’s not really for you. So you do find yourself saying you really like it, but maybe it’s not a lie? Very few people make things and don’t really mean it, you know, so few people make things in a sort of cynical way. Because who the hell can be arsed to do that?”
TD: “When you first meet someone, if a relationship develops to the point where you think you can be honest about what I think about it, that’s much further down the line”.
What do you most dislike about your appearance?
TD: “It’s my teeth”.
FS: “Do you know what? I’m going to say teeth as well”.
TD: “I wiggled all my teeth when I was a kid. I kind of basically pulled all my own teeth out when they were loose. It was just too interesting. As a consequence, they’ve all grown wonky. I was just like such a weird kid.”
Which words or phrases do you most overuse?
TD: “I say ‘sick’ far too much. I met my mate Martin Brignall, and the very first time I met him, he said it. And you know when you sort of think, ‘I’m going to say that’, and that was about 20 years ago. And I’ve said sick ever since.”
FS: “I say ‘vibe’ too much. Everything’s a vibe, this vibe, that vibe, what’s the vibe? It’s part of my vocabulary now, and I don’t know how I feel about it”.
Which talent would you most like to have?
TD: “I wish I’d developed some kind of sports talent”.
FS: “Like, started skiing when you were four?”
TD: “Yeah, something like that. Anything that got me into sports because I don’t really play any sport, and I adore football, so I’d have kind of loved to have been talented at football. Because you don’t even have to be a pro or anything. I really admire people like Florence’s partner Pedro, who is really good at football. I just wish I could play it at a casual mate level, but be a bit tasty. Whereas at the moment I just foul and kick the shit out of everyone, because I have got no talent.”
What do you consider your greatest achievement?
TD: “Is it lame to say Dry Cleaning? Because it’s the only thing I’ve done that has achieved a lot of…a lot of people seem to like it. I’ve done a lot of creative things, but none of them have been a success”.
If you were to die and come back as a person or a thing, what would it be?
FS: “You know when you go to like the V&A or something, and there’s the glass section, and they’ll just be like some unbelievable translucent pink frilly fruit bowl something, I mean, you can’t get better than that.”
TD: “Some of these objects are mind-blowing, especially if all your mates are other bowls in the same cabinet. It would be sick”.
Where would you most like to live?
FS: “In my house”.
TD: “Me and my partner have bought a flat, and we haven’t been able to move into it because it has taken so long. So I’d quite like to live in that please”.
What do you most value in your friends?
TD: “My best friends are people that I don’t see very often because maybe if they live far away or we’re both, I tend to sort of gravitate towards quite independent, kind of loner type people, really like, because I’m like that.
“What I really value is when you do come together, you’re able to talk quite a lot about your feelings. You don’t need a lot of preamble; you don’t need to get pissed first or anything like that. All my really good mates, we sort of talk quite regularly about our feelings, which, when you start to become a middle-aged dude, you stop doing that.”
Which historical figure do you most identify with?
FS: “Joan of Arc… No.”
TD: “I thought of Hieronymus Bosch. Painting little people and doing wicked things. I swear, he must be having an absolute blast doing those paintings”.
What are your favourite names?
TD: “I really like the name Michelangelo Antonioni. He’s an Italian film director. I can’t think of a better fucking name”.
FS: “That took me by surprise. I like the name Olive”.
How would you like to die?
FS: “In my sleep, peacefully at the age of 122”.
TD: “I’m going to go to the opposite end of the spectrum. I’d quite like to be doing really well in some kind of medieval battle with a sword or something. I am just absolutely carving out. But then, from behind, someone beheads me and my head flies. You know that Quentin Blake illustration of someone getting their head chopped off, hanging out of a train…”
FS: “But what about the pain?”
TD: “But it would be so quick! Apparently, when they used to behead monarchs, the face would still move, and they would still talk for a while. But there’s actually no way you’re aware of that.”
FS: “I just don’t ever want to die, I’d rather not”.
What is your motto?
FS: “I like, ‘Go through open doors'”.
TD: “That’s good. There’s a Fall song ‘Just Step S’ways’, and it’s his way of abbreviating ‘just step sideways’. In the lyrics, he talks about when the world is really boring and bland and everything just steps sideways into your imagination. I think that’s a good motto.”
One for the road, what’s your favourite song of the last five years?
TD: “I can’t even remember the last five years. This is what happens when you get to your 40s; it’s all just a vague mist”.
FS: “I’m going to say a song by Jessica Pratt, I think it’s called ‘Back, Baby’. I love that song”.
Any reason as to why?
FS: “It just moves me so much. I love the sound of her voice. It’s like from another planet, and I think it’s about her mother. That really interested me, that it wasn’t about a romantic relationship. It was about the relationship between her and her mum. It’s just beautiful. It’s perfect. When I play it, and it gets to the end, I just start it again. I can’t listen to it once. I can’t listen to it once.”
TD: “There probably are others. But I’m gonna say ‘Love takes Miles’ by Cameron Winter. That album crept up on me. These guys were playing stuff on that record on our NTS show, and every time I’d be like, ‘This is interesting, what’s this?’ And they would tell me, and I would just completely forget. And then eventually I got into it. And I think it’s not easy to find a fresh way [of] talking about love in love songs.
“I thought he has really managed it with that. He’s brought a totally different way of doing it, and it’s really refreshing. It’s very charming, very sweet, and makes you feel all the emotions you want from a love song. I think it’s amazing.”
FS: “I like what he says, ‘Love will make you fit everything in the car’, and I just think that’s amazing”.
TD: “He’s got a really good way of doing that, it’s not overly schmaltzy”.
